a radio station in Winnipeg wants ot hire the best person they can... BUT its Winnipeg... even the PD can't excuse that fact.

"If you are even slightly unsure about Winnipeg, then forget it."

OK.

Here is that list of the BEST Canadian Cities to live in the country according to some brainiacs in Ottawa. http://www.conferenceboard.ca/press/2007/cma-benchmarking.asp

01. Calgary
02. Toronto
03. Vancouver
04. Edmonton
05. Victoria
06. Ottawa-Gatineau
07. Halifax
08. Oshawa
09. Kitchener
10. Abbotsford
11. Quebec City
12. Sherbrooke
13. Saskatoon
14. Montreal
15. Hamilton
16. St. John's
17. Regina
18. London
19. Winnipeg

My question is this. How the hell does Kelowna not make the top 10 or even the top 19? Good god! Hamilton is even on the list.  And I can't believe that Saskatoon is a nicer place to be than Kelowna. It's beautiful there. And I've lived in Abbotsford. What's so great about it?  Just my two cents.

Kelowna is off the list because marriage between cousins wasn't part of the criteria.












I kid because I love!

kahuna...you're confusing Kelowna with Westbank....they are seperate entities now  

Married cousins... wait a second, I'm sure I saw St. John's on that list somewhere...

Oh, there it is... whew, that was a close one.

For the record, Kelowna is a GREAT city to live in, and definitely should be on that list.  But as a former Easterner and Ontarian, I know exactly why it wasn't and Hamilton / London / Oshawa / Kitchener / etc. are.

Quoted from Kahuna

Kelowna is off the list because marriage between cousins wasn't part of the criteria.












I kid because I love!

oh boy.  that was the best way to start my Saturday

well, I'll tell ya what...I'd give some pretty important limbs for a shot in Winnipeg.  Say what you want about it, but I love that city, and moreso, the province.

I lost a perfectly good ear in Winterpeg... in the summer... to the black flies.

the last survey I saw like this had Victoria tied for last place.  Also, how the f--- does Montreal finish behind Saskatoon?  Seriously.  One is a world class city, the other is filled with whiners whose claim to fame is they have 2 more bridges than Regina and that somehow makes them superior.

What were they smoking when they made up this list????  

Abbotsford ahead of Montreal???  What the hell is in Abbotsford??  Its got one of the worst crime rates in the country!

I think the survey was for the best city to live in. World class cities are not always nice to live in.

Only one comment.  Can someone please explain the subject line?

talk about being waaaay off topic.  

Quoted from Oh yeah

the last survey I saw like this had Victoria tied for last place.  Also, how the f--- does Montreal finish behind Saskatoon?  Seriously.  One is a world class city, the other is filled with whiners whose claim to fame is they have 2 more bridges than Regina and that somehow makes them superior.

Saskatoon also has a vibrant theatre community, a river valley that is both beautiful and filled with activities. Should it rate ahead of Montreal? I don't know. I've spent very little time in Montreal, but I enjoyed my limited time in Quebec.  Perhaps the survey is skewed, but preferring Montreal is not a reason to denigrate Saskatoon.
Montreal is a great city- but it is also a more expensive place to live.  I've lived all over Canada, big cities and smaller centers and I've loved all of them.  How many 'world class' cities have you lived in? How do you define them? Or do you let other people define them for you?  
Have you actually lived in Saskatoon? On what basis are you forming your opinion?

dave

way to drudge up an old thread and miss the point.

There is link to the survey.  read it, care what it says or don't.

I personally love how commercial radio stations make it seem like you're "lucky" to work for them.  We are currently enjoying a hot economy so employers should be trying to recruit people to work for them.  To the guy who wants his shot in Winnipeg, go nuts.  I have a friend offered a gig there that payed $12/hour.  A pay cut from her position in a medium market on the Pacific Ocean.

Take a milky ad for a "less desirable" location (maybe like Winnipeg... but a PD in Vancouver or Toronto should also be selling the virtues of their company and town)... a good PD will talk up all the wonderful qualites of the community.  You have to do that to talk junior broadcasters into leaving minimum wage in Vancouver/Calgary/Edmonton to take minimum wage in Regina, Fort McMurray or Prince George.

Think about your ideal worker and then lure them to you.

The dude in Winnipeg doesn't even bother.  He says, "if you're worried about Winnipeg, forget about it."

so, here I am... decently rated, competent, young, educated broadcaster... employed making good money from BC.. I am "worried" about Winnipeg, on the DAY I read about the job I read that Winnipeg is a scary place to live... why should I apply?  Why should I change MY life and the lives of my family to make money for YOUR company in a scary far away city?  Because of a cutesy help wanted ad?  sorry, I'll pass and leave it for the broadcasting school kids.

Poor ad and damaging to the station's brand.  This PD has immediately shrunk his pool of possible candidates for the job by one.

its funny to me, but not haha funny.

OMG how you missed the entire point.  

Winnipeggers are quite secure and happy, in fact, I'd go so far as to say that they feel superior to much of the rest of the country.  I've worked in that market twice, and loved it.  I didn't go in thinking it would be good the first time, but the people in Winnipeg know how to make their own fun.  

That PD is a born and bred Winnipegger.  To me the ad is clearly saying "if you live outside of Winnipeg and you have any doubts about it being a great place - then don't bother".  

Winnipeg is pretty aware of it's reputation outside of the province and unlike Saskatchewan, don't really give a rag.  

I thought that line was fresh and funny - braggy and confident.  Unlike the regular bs sell job that you seem to like.

Quoted from Tweedledum

OMG how you missed the entire point.  

neat... I missed the point to my own thread.

I don't know the guy.  I don't know the station.  Don't now the city.  to me, THAT ad is the BS (its not the only one... I just thought it was funny on the day that read it, there was an article saying how scary Winnipeg is, a coiensedence).  Because he has a weak job, he had to fill with weird frills and swagger.

I want to work for a company that is pro.  I want the who, what, why, how much?  I don't want to work for a "bragger" I want to work for a winner.

I'm afraid that you're the one who totally missed the point.

He's saying if you don't think you'd dig Wpg, then Wpg doesn't want you.  

It's swagger and it's authentic and full of pride.

Sell the station and the market?  Large markets don't need to do that, small markets do.  I wanna feel good if I'm going small and real life stuff makes a difference.

Large markets - you have run through all of them in your head, and every jock has thought about what it would be like to work in each and has reasons to hope for one over the other.  And we all know all about the stations in Toronto, Vancouver, and most of us are also familiar with Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg.

I think lessening the pool by one, in your case was a good decision. You don't get it.

By the way HOT 103 (I saw the ad too) is a huge CHR winner that lays claim to all Female Demo's and is usually one or two in 12+ and 25-54.

Smells like a winner to me.

Backpeddling on Flame's point of going from minimum wage in Vancouver to minimum wage in Winnipeg.  The difference between working for peanuts here and in Winterpeg is you can afford to buy a home in the 'Peg.  The stay-at-home broadcasters that graduate from BCIT and limit their "fishing net" to jobs in Metro Vancouver and toil away here for years while living at home or sharing a basement suite (coz that's all they afford) are missing the boat in terms of being a homeowner and a seasoned broadcaster.

Like others, I totally get the sarcasm in the Milkman posting.  Being born and raised in Northern
Ontario it's a culture you either embrace or don't bother applying.  Pure and simple.

Quoted from davel

Saskatoon also has a vibrant theatre community, a river valley that is both beautiful and filled with activities. Should it rate ahead of Montreal? I don't know. I've spent very little time in Montreal, but I enjoyed my limited time in Quebec.  Perhaps the survey is skewed, but preferring Montreal is not a reason to denigrate Saskatoon.
Montreal is a great city- but it is also a more expensive place to live.  I've lived all over Canada, big cities and smaller centers and I've loved all of them.  How many 'world class' cities have you lived in? How do you define them? Or do you let other people define them for you?  
Have you actually lived in Saskatoon? On what basis are you forming your opinion?

dave

Saskatoon isn't exactly utopia.  I've lived there, I like the praries....but I wouldn't be huffing enough glue to claim an edge to Saskatoon in comparing it to Montreal.  

Quoted from Tweedledum

I'm afraid that you're the one who totally missed the point.

He's saying if you don't think you'd dig Wpg, then Wpg doesn't want you.  

It's swagger and it's authentic and full of pride.

I think lessening the pool by one, in your case was a good decision. You don't get it.

you're cute.  it looks his ad worked great.  Tweedledum can apply and make $12/hr MAJOR market in Winnipeg and poor Flamethrower can sit out and be an unemployed/bitter/PSR

the main point of the entire thread... was thats its funny that even a Winnipegger can't excuse his town... it was supposed to be quirky.  Look at the list of towns that are the "best" and "worst" to live in... its bizarre.

there was list of places today on CTV that have most expensive cities in the country to live... number one thru 4 were all BC metros... then Toronto.  Cheapest... Thunderbay.

Might be expensive to live in BC... you better be offering more than $12/hr and an attidude to pry me away from the ocean.

I believe they call it "tongue in cheek".  Everyone know's all of the stereotypical things about Winnipeg,
minus 50, huge mosquitos, etc.  The ad was playing on those stereotypes, IMO.
And since when are there so many jobs in the Radio Business that a PD in a place like Winnipeg has to become a member of "tourism Winnipeg" to sell their city to prospective employees.  If you see a job that you might like isn't the onus on you to research the area, cost of living, etc.
By the way, you can find $10.00 an hour radio jobs in Vancouver as well.  Go to Winnipeg and get two bucks more
an hour and maybe even find a place to live.

Actually, there is a loose connection to the thread title. 'Course, if we go even further in, someone will come up with a tie-in to Nicholas Cage.

Quoted from pave

Actually, there is a loose connection to the thread title. 'Course, if we go even further in, someone will come up with a tie-in to Nicholas Cage.

Now,   I miss the point on that one, then again I'm not as eloquent and brainy as Pave

I don't doubt the dude was trying to be funny.

Really... that was how the thread started.

the point is... "who is Hot 103 talking to when they place an ad in Milkman?"

Unemployed broadcasters?  or employed broadcasters in top markets that *would* require a reason to leave?

As I said,.. I am not from Winnipeg, I don't know the the guy.  In his ad copy he gave me an out.

"If you are unsure about Winnipeg, this job is not for you."

OK.  the job is not for this employed broadcaster.  End of story.

if the job had, " I am looking for the best, top dollar, great city send me you demo right away" then we could have a discussion.

Just bad copy... he was writing a national recruitment ad, not a bit for Winnipeggers.  and if he was... maybe run the ad in the Winnipeg newspaper.

if I hurt YOUR feelings because Winnipeg is just darn bestest place on earth, then I am sorry...  I didn't author the surey, some scientist did in Ottawa.  

We all have hometowns and I am not retarded... I know that home is always the best place to live.

Quoted from Oh yeah

Saskatoon isn't exactly utopia.  I've lived there, I like the praries....but I wouldn't be huffing enough glue to claim an edge to Saskatoon in comparing it to Montreal.  

I don't believe I did that. Saskatoon is not utopia, but it's not the end of the world either. It's a nice place to live and work- brutal winters aside. Unfortunately, while the oil boom has pumped up the economy there, it's also made it a much more expensive place to shop for a house.
I worked in radio in Winnipeg, as well,  and if the business was still worth working in, I'd go back in again with no hesitation. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, radio is pretty much a mug's game now, no matter where you work.

davel.

Quoted from davel

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, radio is pretty much a mug's game now, no matter where you work.

davel.

I'm sick of all you bitter idiots on this site.   If you're out of radio, then MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE.  Quick lurking on industry websites, 'cause it's pathetic.

I'm pretty sure the ad is saying "If you're one of those people that look down on Winnipeg, it's just not going to work out"

Quoted from thanksfrthat

I'm sick of all you bitter idiots on this site.   If you're out of radio, then MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE.  Quick lurking on industry websites, 'cause it's pathetic.

And do you consider the likes of Bruce Payne (see CHEK 6 post) among the bitter idiots too that should move on?!?! Yeah, all us pathetic people will leave the website so all you corporate lovin', pom-pom waving employees of Rogers, Corus, Astral, CHUM et al can continually "high-5" each other for how GREAT the corporations have made the radio 'biz??  I worked for 5 years under a corporate radio environment and, quite frankly, the monthly rah-rah sessions in the boardroom made me puke...well, ALMOST!  

Oh, CRS.  I'm really surprised you've replied.  What a shock.  You've been posting essentially the same thing for the past few years.  You REALLY need to move on with your life.  Or come up with a new handle.

Listen, I understand you feel "radio ain't what it used to be", but that's life.  Business models are changing everywhere.  You could say anything "ain't what it used to be".  Radio needs to step up it's game, and react to the changing face of media.  Radio can compete, and find it's new niche, but we (as in, us "working folk") need to care.  The problem I see today is apathy.  The same old boring breaks, and the same old boring content.  We got in the business because we love radio, but it's hard to hear that sometimes.  And that's not the fault of "big business", that's just a scapegoat.  It's just lazy.  

I don't want young broadcasters leaving this site feeling bitter about the industry, but that's a likely response after reading post after post about how radio is on the decline.  Shut up.

it can be a challenge to cut through the "bitter crap" on here sometimes ( I htink I am bitter to the bitterness... so it doesn't bother me, besides, this place would be pretty boring with out the fights ).  But, there is lots to learn... always TONS of news on this site... and if you read between the lines, future job ops before they are poted on Milky.... I have even retooled some of those "back in the day we did this..." for modern broadcasting.

Plus... some companies get more bitter thrashing than others... and if you read enough... you can get a pretty good idea of who and where you wanna work.

I hated hearing the "old guys" tell me how radio was so much better when they were young.
Who's life isn't better when they are young? Give the old guys a break thanksfrthat. Take what they say with a grain of salt and move on. We all have problems with some of the things going on in the industry and I think the worst thing anyone can do is bury their head in the sand and say "way it goes". I think the corperations are evil but they are made up of "people" who can occationally be swayed. Lets quit wining, get organized and make them listen. We are communicators after all.

Gee sorry "thanks".  i didn't see the sign in here that says this is a website EXCLUSIVE to those in the industry or those who have nothing but NICE to say about the state of broadcasting today.  Sure thing, I'll tell the masses how much I enjoy listening to a radio station programmed 100 km away after 10am where announcers read from cue cards instead of ad-libbing and how young "up and coming" broadcasters should strive to be robots like them.  Be all optimistic about their entry level opportunities in an industry where there's no longer all-night shows that "green" announcers can make all those early foibles.  

Oh and BTW "thanks", you didn't address whether Bruce Payne should also "get a life".  Answer me that.....

PS:  I'll work on finding a more "positive" name to befit all the positive developments in broadcasting today!!

Quoted from thanksfrthat

I'm sick of all you bitter idiots on this site.   If you're out of radio, then MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE.  Quick lurking on industry websites, 'cause it's pathetic.

Let's see. Hm. nope. I'm not bitter. I still do quite a bit of voice work, but I am glad to be off the air.  I 'lurk' here to talk to the people I still like and respect in the business. I still have a lot of friends in the business, and I like to see where they are, and how they're doing. I wish the young broadcasters coming up today had the same level of opportunities that we had.  It's a harder business now I think, but I hope it's still fun.  Perhaps not, judging by how tightly you appear to be wound.

Dave  

Yeah, that was a little harsh, so I apologize.  Again though, I don't find it all that useful to talk about how great it "used to be".  It's not a "radio specific" problem.  It's the fault of globalization, and capitalism.  But that's another topic.

Nothing personal Davel, I just felt the need to say something.

I've worked in 2 small market stations in Manitoba, and am now in a small market in AB.  My salary nearly tripled, which is quite something, but I will probably never own a house out here without 3 jobs.  

I don't know what the pay is like in Winnipeg, but I've heard stories, and if you're full time at Astral or Corus, I'm pretty sure you're doing very well and are able to buy just about any house you want.

Winnipeg is an awesome city and Manitoba, as a province, is a phenomenal place to live.  Lots to see and do, and affordable to live in!  It does, however, carry a reputation and people from the Calgary's/Edmontons/Torontos/Vancouvers/Montreals of the world have a habit of dumping on it.

Burpee was just trying to save himself some hassle in the hiring process...oh, and he's not "born and raised" in Winnipeg, but is from MB.  He's a good guy.

So, I'm not adding anything important to the thread, but I felt I needed to defend my home province a bit.  I'm 6 years in the bizz as of May 6th 2008, so I suppose I'm a young-ish broadcaster, and still quite impressionistic.  Sometimes the bitterness of you older guys can cut through...makes a guy wonder...

One of the questions I was able to ask myself when I first stated "playin' the Hits an' talkin' dirty" on the radio was: Ten years from now, will I have the opportunity to do this much better for a lot more money? The answer: an unqualified "Yes"!

Today - for young broadcasters who may ask themselves the same question - I feel the "yes" may still be there, but not without many qualifications.

Even here in Toronto, daytime radio personalities (a couple or morning shows notwithstanding) are unlistenable. Not their responsibility either. Nevertheless, they hardly have an opportunity to stretch, experiment or learn.

I have no doubt some of these folks are talented and clever, but the evidence of that is not on-the-air. That is, unless I'm obliged, as a listener, to pick up some Einsteinian nuances when I hear "Toronto's Best Music" ad infinitum.

Quoted from Poppa

Sometimes the bitterness of you older guys can cut through...makes a guy wonder...

Nope not bitter here. I sincerely FEEL for the up and coming broadcasters and the limited opportunities which Pave eluded to in the preceding post.  Rather than me babbling on (is that a collective cheer I hear??? ), how 'bout some feedback from those soon to be graduating or that HAVE graduated from a recognized broadcasting school.  What are your instructors telling you about the job opportunities, room for advancement, ability to be creative?  When I got into radio in the early 80's, overnight shows were still LIVE.  How many small market stations can still make the claim?  

I can totally agree with the quality of on-air talent in the major markets not being what it used to be.  Places like Vancouver should never be an entry level market, but with the limited opportunities in small town radio, that's what it's become.  If that comes across as being bitter VS a dose of reality, accept my apologies.  If Winnipeg is hiring or small market radio on the Prairies kids, give it a try.  Your chances of living on $10 hour in Flin Flon or Swift Current are much better than trying to do the same in Vancouver.  Besides you'll get the experience of working in a small market, which probably is your best chance at being creative.  My best radio memories are from my small market days...

Flamey, I'll pipe in with the missed the point thing here.  I didn't find too much questionable in Ace's posting.  The way I read it is that he's looking for someone to make a commitment to the city and to the station, if you're unsure about it, move on.  That's all very fair in my books.

of course Arnie.  When I first made the post a month an half ago, I put a different spin on his poor choice of words and used some flimsy research to try and make a funny... and the posts at the time picked up on it and if you read back to original posts, I thought it was a fun thread.

it was a funny coincidence to me.

now, when you have to explain a joke, its not funny.  sorry

Quoted from CRS

Nope not bitter here..

Oh CRS be serious.  You are seething with bitterness about the business.  You apparently were wronged by Jimmy Pattison, Ted Rogers or someone like that years ago and you continue to spew the same "doom and gloom" about the business on here week after week, you and a few others.  You are now a 911 operator, Coast Mountain Bus Driver or Skytrain Security guard or whatever you  are doing and happy, safe and secure....good  for you.  I am one of the "old guys" who still  enjoy working in the business.  Has the business changed over the years, you bet.
Technology has brought about big changes in the business just like technology has brought about big changes in almost all businesses, hasn't the 911 call centre been centralized in recent years because of technology?
To those younger broadcasters who come here for maybe a little information or inspiration about the business radio is still a good place to be , if that's what you really want to do.  There are good places and good people to work with in the business, but like almost everywhere else you can work, it isn't perfect.  It is what you make it and put into it.  Now go and read that cue card with gusto!!!!

...or better yet don't read that cue card.  Find a station that will allow you to be a personality and have the commitment to help you along with your process.  I happen to program one of those stations.  We have liners for sure, but I get mighty agitated when they're read word for word and it doesn't happen very often.  In return, our station kicks ass in the ratings and we have probably the best morale of any station I've ever been at.  Yet, how many unsolicited applications have I had here in the last 2 years?  NONE.  Seriously I can't believe it.  When I was a young 'un trying to break into the business I sent stuff everwhere constantly, I even made cold calls just trying to get my name out there.  I'm not sure what they teach in broadcasting schools on this but a lot of what we do is marketing on so many levels.  If you can't properly market yourself you're in no way going to be able to market the station.  I may have an opening soon and have absolutely nobody "on file".  Amazes me.   Sure we're not in Southern Ontario or on the West Coast or anywhere in Ontario but our market is a HUGE tourist destination.  This place is insane with tourists.  It either comes down to people being lazy, unwilling to move, or not knowing thier country... or unable to market themselves.  I could place an ad on Milkman but why are people waiting?  Putting those ads are funny though because you get the same 30 people who apply for every single job.  I'd rather have somebody I already know who has taken the effort to find my station without being prompted.  In an age where email is free, there's no excuse to not flood PD's emails with "just in case you're ever looking" applications.

I've definitely done the "...blind dart..." thing in the past.  When I was still in my first 2-3 years in the business, I liked to send airchecks to different PDs just to get a different take on my stuff than what my own PD was giving me. (2nd opinion is always nice, right?) As I've become more comfortable with who I am, and where I'm working, I haven't really felt the need to do that as much.

On top of that, I think I've become a little disillusioned with major markets.  I've been hugely successful in small-medium markets and am curious to find out if it's me or the market, by taking my show on the road, but I can't get the shot.  I'm never going to have the Jeff Rechner-esque voice, so I take what I am good at (energy through the roof without being over the top and a serious country music audiophile) and excel as much as I can.  Over the years, though, I've come to believe that the major markets are just looking for a "voice" and don't really care about the content that's coming from said voice.

Too often, I heard the same PM Drive Guy with the super-deep voice doing breaks that rambled, provided nothing, and made a mockery of the country music industry with his lack of knowledge.

Thoughts?

I agree, once you get to a certain point in your career you start looking desperate sending that stuff out. Looking desperate to get a break is actually a great quality in a rookie.

I'd wade into your debate Poppa but apparently I'm "seething with bitterness" over the state of the industry today. So, nope nothing's wrong...   I'm OK with listening to cue card readers who don't stray from the written word.