S3 2006 Calgary

         S3       S2
CKRY 13.7     13.2    
CJAY 12.3     10.5
CIBK  11.0     10.5
CHFM  9.4      8.0
CKIS   9.3     11.4
CHQR  7.3      9.4
CFGQ  6.8      6.4
CBR    5.6      6.0
CKMX  3.0      3.2
CBRFM 2.8     3.6
CiQX   2.6      2.6
CFAC  2.0      3.3
CFFR  1.5      1.3

WOW, an interesting book (even though this would be the one that nobody considers important)...should point out that the numbers on the right are the LAST book, and the numbers on the left are THIS book.

Good book for standard, with VIBE the big winner, going from 9.2 (the number above is wrong, go to http://www.bbm.ca to see for yourself) to an 11, and Cjay going up almost 2 points too.

Shaky book for Rogers as Lite 96 went up a smidge, but Jack is starting to look like the ride is over.  They had a 21 in their hayday I believe...now a 9.3.

Corus can't be happy...even though Country stayed no 1, and Q went up an insignificant amount, QR had probably the worst book, dropping more than 2.  When was the last time that company had a GOOD book?

No real surprises here except I'm a little surprised at how dismal 660 did. The radio landscape here is about to change though so it's the next couple of books that will prove interesting.

QR didn't have a bad book considering their main competitor News 660 (CFFR) is in the basement with a 1.5 share.  There was a lot of sampling going on between the two stations this summer.  It'll be interesting to see how things look this fall.

Shortbangs, you do realise that ratings are far and beyond that of the 12 plus demo.

I've read quite a few of you quotes about certain stations and you have been wrong in many of your assumptions. Once you read and understand target demos and money demos you'll realise that 12 plus demos' only mean so much.

You are either a student or new to the business but I can honeslty say that it seems you never have been to a radio meeting.....ever.


with all this said please promise all of us that you will study and read other demographics before making anymore of you comments. Your comments aren't hateful but more less annnoying.

no more until you understand the ratings system....

Quoted from Radioguru

QR didn't have a bad book considering their main competitor News 660 (CFFR) is in the basement with a 1.5 share.  There was a lot of sampling going on between the two stations this summer.  It'll be interesting to see how things look this fall.

Of course, that means next to nothing.  All-news is a format sold on CUME, not on share.  It's not going to blossom overnight, but I think it will continue to grow.

I love how all people are so short minded in these forums....basically two books, if it ain't working, can the morning show and headhunt someone new, or change formats.

It takes time to build an audience....and a loyal following

Quoted from CranK

Shortbangs, you do realise that ratings are far and beyond that of the 12 plus demo.

I've read quite a few of you quotes about certain stations and you have been wrong in many of your assumptions. Once you read and understand target demos and money demos you'll realise that 12 plus demos' only mean so much.

You are either a student or new to the business but I can honeslty say that it seems you never have been to a radio meeting.....ever.


with all this said please promise all of us that you will study and read other demographics before making anymore of you comments. Your comments aren't hateful but more less annnoying.

no more until you understand the ratings system....

Ahh well...I appreciate that I have garnered such interest for you to go digging...hope you didn't get your fingernails dirty.

One snap judgment deserves another, I guess.  

I'm going to go ahead and assume you're a PD somewhere...probably for one of the 'bad book' guys.  Hence the immediate assumption you have that you know more than any little employee or radio peon could ever.  Which leads to your guess that I'm some rookie somewhere that fires away without knowing the details.  Because, heaven forbid, nobody could be as knowledgable about radio than you, right?   Nobody else could have a valid opinion in radio unless they have PD or GM next to their name on their busines card, right?

That's where radio is falling apart badly...it's become a business run like NORTEL or IBM...with board members, and vice presidents etc etc that treat everyone else in the company like worker ants.  

So, here's the deal.  I'm no rookie.  In fact, I've done my management stints, and had offers for more, but won't do em...I don't like the way management works in these situations today.

I also have been through all the stages in my career:  Yep, the early stage where you think you know everything and you don't.  Then the stage where you learn enough that you buy the 'spin' from each book "In overall share we dropped two points, but when it comes to men 25 1/2 to 25 3/4 years old, who smoke and drive a green buick lesabre, we're still number one!", and now to the stage where you take spin for what it is:  Spin.  

Sure you can use some narrow targeting, and justify that, but the bottom line is, the 12+ demo is the headline...that's the one that everyone sees and judges by...that's the pride marker.  That's the one the newspaper writes about.  So that's the one I made MY judgments by.  

I've been there, and I've seen it...and I know for a FACT that, even if you do okay in your DEMO, when your numbers slip in the headlines, it sucks for you.  You announce at the meeting that everything is going as planned, but then you go home and say to yourself "bad day"...you're lying if you say otherwise.

On that note, that's my last post here.  This is starting to degenerate into all the other forums...I think I may have contributed to that, but nonetheless, I don't like it...no good comes from that, and it makes folks feel bad.

Thanks guys, later

Crank...yours is the most arrogant post I've come across in a long time. Short Bangs...please keep posting. I really enjoy reading your posts and Crank is just that....a bitter, probably EX radio guy who couldn't get a gig in radio if he tried.

Hey Bangs, don't go pulling the plug yet. I may or may not agree with you, but it's your god-given right to be wrong, right! Not saying you are, just thowing in abit of levity. Unless you're name really is Short Bangs, don't sweat it, anon is great! HA. Hell I've even had to edit, modify and ask for some of my stuff to be removed because as often as people wanna know what happened to ___ and at ___ they don't wanna hear it unless it's confirmed by 3 independant sources. Stuff happens, don't sweat it! Stick around!

I'll second that. I really enjoy reading the posts by 'Short Bangs'. Crank I seriously hope you are out of radio now. Your arrogance is amazing.

Shortbangs...all i asked was you understand the ratings system...you didnt' do that, you just attacked my radio knowledge...for the rest of you that posted after me...you too are obvioulsy new to radio. Don't hide it...Its easy to figure out.

And you say Im bad for radio? IF it was up to you guys, we'd have two freakin' stations in Calgary...."harvard don't know how to  play with the big boys, Q doing so bad" (in the 12 plus ratings) Newcap stations are all downhill....you guys don't understand...its funny. You all sound like beginners, and its not like any of you have had any great ideas.

thanks all of you, and besides i'm live and well in radio and probably doing alot better than you. do yourselves a favour, start off in a small market and learn this industry properly, and before you reply. don't slam me or anyone else, just learn what radio is really about!

If you come forth with your real name and position, I'd do the same and we can compare notes...but sit behind your computer and talk giz and jazz aabout whatever is on the top of your head is really a low blow to all of you!

what exactly was wrong with my orginal post, besides asking to have some knowledge on the ratings system.

thanks for coming out. i hear the bell. class has started.

no more from me kiddies i'm done here..

remember no more posts until you understand the ratings system..please.

Crank....your arrogance is KILLING ME. Me and Freelance voice have 20 years experience EACH doing morning radio in Calgary. Have some balls and give us your real name you arrogant jerk.

Flying fur! And about time.

First of all we have to remember this is an OPEN FORUM to exchange different points of view.  It's not supposed to be about being right.  In fact I hate the boards where everyone agrees all the time.  Whats the point of that?  There have been many situations where I have posted my opinion and due to a counter opinion by a fellow broadcaster, I have changed my thoughts on a particular subject.  Hey, that's how we learn...no matter how much experience we have in the industry.  
I believe "when you finally know it all....it's over".  Thank you all for the passion, spirit and inspiration this board has to offer.  We need ALL opinions, not just the opinions of the people who agree with us.

Well said.  

What's thay old saying "if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen".  If you are willing to make points, you have to be willing for others to comment on them otherwise there is no point to this board.

Crank and his three posts since joining up back in the spring, and you're gonna take your ball and go home now? Well that's too bad. I guess we'll wait till the younger, hipper, more intune staff members at your station tune you in that there's another 'New' form of chatter out there. You just finish up with the tin cans and string, or were you and the Old Boys Network off rubbing and tugging one another? geez, guy, nobody, NO ONE,said anything overly nasty about you on this thing, now I may not agree much with Bangs, and may have even thought you were sorta right, but come on guy, that's not how you treat people, even anonymous ones. Or is it? Old-school boy!

I am new to radio and spouting of my "logic" is why I come here.

As for ratings... every station is number 1!  Yeah to all of us.

Congratulations to everyone here for such an interesting posting.  The exchange of opinions and idea's inspires me to keep reading these posts.  I for one seek and welcome the full spectrum of thoughts and opinions.  Those who use logic, intelligence and decorum typically will garner my respect for their positions irrespective of my own views.

Let me fan the flames a tad-

From the seasoned PD's, GM’s and Mike-jockeys, correct me if I'm wrong.  Are BBM's not just simple statistics?  Statistics with blips, errors and trends.   Stats used to spin a position for any respective dial position for their share of national accounts.   Stats used to convince the narcissistic small business owner to put his name up in lights on your dial position.  Stats which can be shuffled like a deck of cards by those "Slick Willy" magicians down the hall in the sales meetings.
The old adage, stats are like a lamp post- you can lean on them or be illuminated by them, but mostly all you see when the lights come on is who's loitering around the lamp-post.  

I realize Radio lives and dies by the "Book" but perhaps this is why there is so much controversy and insecurity by "Radio Folk" when talking about it.  Is it possible that in the grand scheme of things, unless you're in radio- the rest of the world is too busy to notice?   Is it possible the rest of world is rapidly changing and Radio is too busy debating S3 BBM's to notice?

Am I wrong?  Naive?  A dinosaur?  I'm curious for your responses

Quoted Text

Am I wrong?  Naive?  A dinosaur?  I'm curious for your responses

No, I actually believe you to be one of the rarest finds in paleontology, you're a "Naivesaur"!

But seriously - Well put!

CranK:

kthxbye 8-)

I am surprised that NW remains so strong considering what has gone on in the past year. I rarely listen to them.
I am also surprsied that the Team1040 remained so weak in losing a point. Maybe with the hockey season starting the ratings will improve.

I can say with certainty that I have never in my 20+ years in radio seen a single media buy made off of 12+ numbers.

12+ is all about pride.  I always love seeing one of my stations win 12+ because it feels good and looks good. It is what the paper prints and what bbm gives everyone access to right on their website.  They give it out free because... it's worth nothing.  What is valuable (and what you have to pay bbm for) is the demo breakouts.

Most ad buys are made on 25-54 numbers.  You can be #1 12+ and lose a huge amount of money if you don't win 25-54.

There are other important demos for sure, but the lion's share of revenue is going to the station that wins 25-54 almost all the time in almost every rated market.

And as skythings pointed out, wise operators know that ratings fluctuate.  One book - even two - doesn't make a trend.  Especially when all you can see is 12+.

Indeed. Yet, I still wonder why stations apply for that which will deliver nothing more than "kiddie-cumes". And that's if they can knock off the competition!

Whassamatter? Can't deal with grownups?