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Puget Sound Radio    ON THE AIR    Street Talk/Shop Talk/let's Talk  ›  PPM HATES New Music!

PPM HATES New Music!  This thread currently has 2,408 views. Print
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CWL
January 23, 2009, 2:29am Report to Moderator
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ok, maybe that title is hyperbolic... but check it out.

Is The People Meter The Enemy Of New Music?
Entry by Sean Ross

http://www.edisonresearch.com/home/archives/2009/01/is_the_people_meter_the_enemy.php

Sean asks the question, Did Indie 103 in LA die because PPM does not like new music stations?  Research is interesting... but then this post in the comment section was like, right on:

2  Bob Walker on January 22, 2009 2:15 PM

The PPM speaks the truth. Anyone who has ever been to a concert by a marquee act with a big library of songs has seen the PPM / new music effect take place. Whether it’s George Strait or Matchbox 20, watch closely the average fan sitting in the back (far from the media VIP's). When the band says that they are going to play some stuff from their up and coming album, people move. They go to the bathroom, grab a drink or buy a souvenir. I had a vendor point this out to me years ago. The fans are acting like they do in the car when a song comes on they do not know – except there they hit the button. These are the P2’ and P3’s in action. The P1’s up front sing along to every word – just like they stay with the station through unfamiliar songs.
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ProducerChud
January 23, 2009, 2:45am Report to Moderator
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all i know is one of my close friends very sad about losing this station.
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CWL
January 23, 2009, 2:47am Report to Moderator
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its on the internet.  Does your friend live in LA?
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2bcool
January 23, 2009, 4:12am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CWL
ok, maybe that title is hyperbolic... but check it out.

Is The People Meter The Enemy Of New Music?
Entry by Sean Ross

http://www.edisonresearch.com/home/archives/2009/01/is_the_people_meter_the_enemy.php

Sean asks the question, Did Indie 103 in LA die because PPM does not like new music stations?  Research is interesting... but then this post in the comment section was like, right on:

2  Bob Walker on January 22, 2009 2:15 PM

The PPM speaks the truth. Anyone who has ever been to a concert by a marquee act with a big library of songs has seen the PPM / new music effect take place. Whether it’s George Strait or Matchbox 20, watch closely the average fan sitting in the back (far from the media VIP's). When the band says that they are going to play some stuff from their up and coming album, people move. They go to the bathroom, grab a drink or buy a souvenir. I had a vendor point this out to me years ago. The fans are acting like they do in the car when a song comes on they do not know – except there they hit the button. These are the P2’ and P3’s in action. The P1’s up front sing along to every word – just like they stay with the station through unfamiliar songs.


Good point.  I can think back on concerts where that happened, and nothing puts an lid on the party quite like a few selections from the soon to be released album.  Sure it's great to break new songs but the people love familiarity, want to feel part of the party.  When that happens on radio, that loud clicking noise is the sound of listeners moving on.
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WheatSurfingDJ
January 23, 2009, 5:23am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 2bcool

  Sure it's great to break new songs but the people love familiarity, want to feel part of the party.  When that happens on radio, that loud clicking noise is the sound of listeners moving on.


So what you gents are saying is that new music doesn't work on the radio? Stations that play new music don't perform? The only way to make money when PPM rolls in is to stick to the oldies and well worn classics?
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GS850
January 23, 2009, 6:24am Report to Moderator
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If that's true, the peak in vancouver is doomed once the PPM's arrive?

doubt it.
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2bcool
January 23, 2009, 6:39am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from WheatSurfingDJ


So what you gents are saying is that new music doesn't work on the radio? Stations that play new music don't perform? The only way to make money when PPM rolls in is to stick to the oldies and well worn classics?


Hey pal, don't get so defensive.  Not what I'm saying at all.  New music, old music no difference.  What people want is familiarity.  New music hits, great, bring em on.  But you program a station with a bunch of stuff nobody's heard before, they're going to tune out!  Ya gotta have something they know and recognize.  Old music/new music, same deal.  At least in my books.
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perry
January 23, 2009, 1:08pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 2bcool

What people want is familiarity.


Exactly.  The difference from the commercial compared to the indie is in the CHR world, when Rhianna puts out a new track, the station starts spinning it like crazy to get it familiar.

Generally, Indie or 'variety' formats don't do that.  Their rotations are low on their new music to make room for more new music so it has no chance to be familiar.  Not saying that there isn't a market for that...but it isn't as big as the CHR market.

It is just how people work.  You don't remember listening to a new song over and over and over again when you first bought it as an album, tape, or CD?  People have their own natural music rotation that they do themselves.  They'll listen to a new CD like crazy, then once in a while, then it gets filed and may come out at an occasional party.  Eventually it goes in a box until one day while packing you go "wow..."British Steel" by Priest....I forgot I had that".  Same goes for IPOD playlists.

Radio has always mimiced this.  PPM data may start to show we were right to do it all along.
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emmbubbles
January 23, 2009, 2:44pm Report to Moderator
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Another reason I think PPM is unfriendly to stations like Indie and WRXP (and yes, probably the PEAK), is that it adds a whole lot of secondary listening that never got accounted for in the diary system. Be it in an office, a cab, store, whatever - second hand listening is usually to the most mainstream formats.

If you look at the Montreal PPM, stations like Rhythme FM and Q92 got huge CUME jumps, while Couleur Jazz, the TEAM, and CBC suffered.
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ProducerChud
January 23, 2009, 3:44pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 2bcool


Hey pal, don't get so defensive.  Not what I'm saying at all.  New music, old music no difference.  What people want is familiarity.  New music hits, great, bring em on.  But you program a station with a bunch of stuff nobody's heard before, they're going to tune out!  Ya gotta have something they know and recognize.  Old music/new music, same deal.  At least in my books.


How can new music become familiar without it ever being played on the radio?
I agree to an extent. Familiarity helps, but isn't the Be-all-end-all. So many stations play the SAME songs as their competitors. Whats the difference? Imaging? Jocks? Just because a song is familiar, doesn't mean its a good one. As long as I'm entertained, I'll listen.

As I've said before, I'm not a programmer, but what I do know is that a played out song is worse than a good song nobody knows.
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A Giant in PA
January 23, 2009, 4:20pm Report to Moderator
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I dont think its a question of new vs burnt but is one of quality.

you can spin a new track a billion times because its new and make it familiar but that wont make it good.

for example in chr - you get 2 stations where one is playing new justin timberlake vs a station spinning some new deep house/trance/techno (what ever the hell they call it) crap and the 1st station will win every time even tho they are both playing new music.  

and before the pundits jump on it - i get JT is basicly a household name but thats because he's good. no one ever said breaking in the music biz was easy. takes alot of work to get to be where JT and alike are.
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Digicart
January 23, 2009, 5:23pm Report to Moderator
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It's not the PPM's that hate new music, it's the people who are wearing the devices that do.  

BBM will solicit the same people who have filled out the diaries in the past.   We know this.  And the people who fill out the diaries consistently, listen to the heritage stations first, and the others second.  QM and NW will be HUGE come December.

We saw the same thing happen to Spanish programming in New York...because the PPM's weren't distributed to spanish speaking households.

I'm engaged to a person who gets all her music from the internet, my-space and I-tunes.  She's never heard the stuff before, but she gives it a chance and that leads to another song from an artist, and before you know it...she's exposed to another artist she's never heard of, because I-tunes suggested "She might also like this".

I don't know a lot of people under 30 who get new music from the radio...
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CWL
January 23, 2009, 6:21pm Report to Moderator
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um, did anyone read the article?

Sean Ross shows that in most top markets in the US the top ten stations tend to be fairly evenly split between new-ish music, classics and news/talk.  The challenge would be boutique stations.

Indie died not necessarily b/c it was an avaunt garde rocker, but rather because of signal challenges in a geographically diverse city.  Indie lasted 5 years which many pundits say is actually kind of amazing for the 103 freq in LA.  The other challenge was Indie trying to split the D on KROQ (thee mainstream rocker) and KCRW (one of the US' taste-making public music stations). http://www.kcrw.com/

Personally, I think there are better stations that do what Indie does, and two of them are already in LA.  As a listener in Canada, if I were to follow any station online outta LA, Indie is already a secondary choice... (my fave outta market online is KEXP Seattle). http://kexp.org/

I wish Jimmy P loved music like the billionaires in Seattle, then Vancouver could have that "professional" college rocker sound that is enjoyed in many US cities.
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CWL
January 23, 2009, 6:26pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Digicart
I don't know a lot of people under 30 who get new music from the radio...


I disagree with that.  It isn't "cool" right now to listen to the boring old radio... but you'd be surprised how much people actually do listen.

as I showed above... is KCRW or KEXP "internet" or radio listening?  if someone only gets their new music from the internet, but that content is created by the radio then...

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Digicart
January 23, 2009, 8:06pm Report to Moderator
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I'm not referring to the internet radio stations Flamer...I'm talking about getting downloads.   And Instead of being "surprised" by how many people are listening to radio for new music, I'd rather know something a little more accurate.
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